Post: #7

Speaking as one who has been healed, ( I related this story in another thread) I think God always has 3 answers to prayer, Yes, No and Not Right Now. In the case of faith healing, if someone prayed for me and I was not healed instantly, (as I was) I would get myself to a doctor. I would not necessarly think the answer was No, or Not Right Now, but I might think there really wasn't enough faith in the faith healer or in myself, to heal me.

If I ask for healing, and it does not come to pass even after seeking medical care, I would think the answer then was No. Because I believe I am going to Heaven, a No answer just means he is ready for me to come home and I will be glad to do it. I can hardly wait! I'm not ready to leave my family here on earth but I can't wait to see my family in Heaven again.

I know it does not make sense to some but that is how I feel and I am in good company with many who do believe like me. This life is so short compared with Enternity. I wish I could answer all questions about why things happen but I can't. Someday I will know the answers though.

Post: #8

(Matthew 7:7-8,11) "7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened... 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in Heaven give good things to them that ask Him?"

(Romans 8:32) "He [the Father] that spared not His Own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?"

(1John 5:14-15) "14 And this is the confidence that we have in Him, that, if we ask any thing according to His Will , He heareth us: 15 and if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him."

So based on your holy text, I don't see how god can say NO if you pray for healing in the name of Jesus.

Also, Jesus said, "for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

So how much faith does it require for your god to answer your prayers?

Also, if I may, what were you instantly healed of, if you don't mind sharing?

"G"

Post: #9

Geremy quoted:
Matthew 7:7-8,11) "7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened... 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in Heaven give good things to them that ask Him?"

Response:
This scripture refers to the Holy Spirit. Read it in Luke 11:9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Geremy quoted:
(Romans 8:32) "He [the Father] that spared not His Own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?"

Response:
1 John 5:14And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Not everything we pray is His will. I think where a lot of people miss it, is having the idea that God is a blessing machine. Most, not all, of the scriptures on receiving what we ask for, refer to evangelizing. It is always His will that we try to reach others for Christ. But just like a parent knows what is best for his child, God knows what is best for us. We don't question out of respect and trust.

Geremy said:
So based on your holy text, I don't see how god can say NO if you pray for healing in the name of Jesus.

Response:
See previous

Geremy said:
Also, Jesus said, "for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

Response:
First, IMO, I don't think He was talking about a literal mountain. I believe he was speaking of spiritual battles we face. Second, if He were speaking of a literal mountain, who really has that kind of faith?

Geremy said:
So how much faith does it require for your god to answer your prayers?

Response:
It's not a matter of how much, but what kind of faith. And how much is trust? Anyone can have all the faith in the world that God can do something, but not everyone trusts that He will do it. Does that make sense?
Also, James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. How may are truly righteous, and how may really pray fervently?

Post: #10

Thanks for the clarification of the scripture.

I do have a few issues:

1) "But just like a parent knows what is best for his child, God knows what is best for us. We don't question out of respect and trust."

So say when a 16 year old teenager dies because prayer didn't work, it was god's will? With this line of reasoning, then any prayer that is not granted is due to it being god's will not to grant it. I know a lot of people who have had unanswered prayers and it has caused them tons of suffering. This just doesn't sound like a loving god. I guess you can write it off to not knowing or understanding the mind of god, but that just sounds like a cop out to me.

2) "Anyone can have all the faith in the world that God can do something, but not everyone trusts that He will do it."

If you have faith that God can do something, it's not too far of a stretch to believe that he WILL do something. I think this is just an excuse.

3) "How may are truly righteous, and how may really pray fervently?"

How fervently? How do you know if you've ever obtained righteousness?
See, your god should be specific. He gave you a book of metaphor and allegory that can be interpreted and misunderstood very easily. Healing through prayer should be a huge deal to Christians. This could be their one sign to the world that their god is true and real, but because it fails so often, it is a horrible sign. The times that it succeeds are even very questionable. An omnipotent god should have been more specific about this type of thing and should have taken the time to explain these things thoroughly. You don't think that because of the mysticism tied to your faith, that you might be believing in an illusion?

"G"

Post: #11

Not one bit.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Geremy, according to scripture, you cannot understand anything about God and His ways.
1 Corinthians 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

---

Geremy said:
So say when a 16 year old teenager dies because prayer didn't work, it was god's will? With this line of reasoning, then any prayer that is not granted is due to it being god's will not to grant it. I know a lot of people who have had unanswered prayers and it has caused them tons of suffering. This just doesn't sound like a loving god.

Response:
I don't know anything about these people who had unanswered prayers. Maybe they weren't Christians. Maybe He was testing their faith, like Job. I don't know. I can only guess.
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I do know that there is a real devil and he is the ruler of this world.
1 Peter 5:8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Ephesians 6:11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Post: #12

Hey G, here is the copy of what I related on the other thread about my healing, you just forgot about it.

I will tell you one proof that I have had, and you can scoff if you want but it led all of my family that witnessed it to the Cross. When I was about 3 1/2 years old, I fell into an open space heater and burned my left arm severely. Both of my parents and my aunts and uncles say the skin was blistered and peeling from my arm badly. My great aunt had the gift of drawing the fire as the mountain folk call it. She prayed over me and healed me in that instant, there was no scar, no redness, no pain from that moment. She took no credit for it, it was a gift from God. I certainly did not ask to be burned so that I could have proof but it was given. There have been other times in my life that I knew I was in God's presence also. I have never tried to see the logic in something that I feel is Super Natural because I think it defies any logic that could be applied to it by our limited minds. I hope someday that you do get the proof that you need before you die, even if he has to come to you in the instant before your death, it will still not be too late.

Matthew 17: vs 14 thru 20 tells the story about the disciples being unable to heal a man's son and he came to Jesus hurt and disappointed at their lack of ability to emulate their Leader. They had repeatedly observed as He performed miracles and healings and He had constantly encouraged them to heal the sick and do the things that He did.

Yet they were unable to heal the boy, and Jesus said: O you unbelieving (warped, wayward, rebellious) and thoroughly perverse generation! How long am I to remain with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him here to me and he healed him.

When the disciples asked Jesus why they couldn't heal the boy, Jesus' answer was clear: "Because of the littleness of your faith (that is, your lack of firmly relying trust) V20

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2008 06:21 PM by Born2Read.