How are you oppressed?

In recent polls, atheists are seen as the least trusted segment of the population. This isn't because the atheist populous has been harmful to U.S. society, or has actively damaged it. It is solely because Christian ideals promote that atheists are enemies of the faith and are tools of Satan, used to deceive the world.

Also, not to bring up hurtful issues, but you, yourself defined me as poisonous a time or two.

"G"

This post was last modified: Jul 02, 2008 05:24 PM by ggeorge2814.

First of all, I have never and would never call you poisonous. That is simply not my style. I think you must have me mistaken with someone else. I was the one who stuck up for you on this board even though I don't agree with everything you have to say BUT I do agree with your right to say it. (Props to Voltaire)

If it is invalid to live as though things in which we cannot prove don't exist many scientists and physicists, etc. would be out of a job as would many doctors and researchers. The search for truth is as fundamental to human life as is food and water. It is who we are. It is arrogant to believe that what is not true to you cannot possibly be true to me. In this respect I see no difference between that stance and the one you are so angry at Christians about.

American society as a whole today does not persecute atheists, homosexuals, and people of other faiths. Individuals do to varying degrees. Is everyone treated equally in this country? Hell no! Is that because of Christianity? No. It is because people are flawed. History is our best testament to that. Because someone makes a choice to not like you or anyone else because they fit into any of the categories listed above is not persecution. If that was the case then I would be persecuted and oppressed by you for telling me in your previous post that I must have imagined the things I experienced as a child and still do today. While oppression certainly exists in the world today I would hardly call (and I realize that I do not know all your life experiences as you do not know mine) what you have alluded to oppression. In this case I would have to say if you feel oppressed by someone's words or actions it is a choice.

I think you missed my point earlier. My views do not affect you. Christianity does not affect you if you do not believe. Individuals on their own agenda do. If you want to offset this so-called oppression then I wouldn't flip the switch and put it on others whom you simply do not agree with.

I'm fairly certain you are offended if Christians lump all atheists in a pot together so I would suggest not doing the same for all Christians. You can't want/ask for one thing but then turn around and do the same thing yourself.

Are you implying that Obama is the anti-Christ because he has 'massive Christ-like appeal'? This is hardly true. For one, democrats were pretty much split between Obama and Clinton. At this point, Obama and McCain are pretty much split according to recent polls. So, how is it that Obama has 'massive Christ-like appeal'?

G,

I want to follow Common's last post with another thing you should consider while stating that Christian's oppress certain segments of society.

When someone takes their "Christianity" thoughts and actions so far as to offend or harm another individual, do you honestly consider that person a true Christian? Yes, that person may be claiming to be a Christian and may state that he is serving the Lord but do you honestly believe that person is a Christian person or is he/she using Christianity as a pawn to get supporters and attention in his/her own agenda?

Common:

Allow me to address your last post, point-by-point.

First of all, I have never and would never call you poisonous. That is simply not my style.
Apologies. I wasn't talking to you on this one, I was responding to BYS. I should have specified.

If it is invalid to live as though things in which we cannot prove don't exist many scientists and physicists, etc. would be out of a job as would many doctors and researchers. The search for truth is as fundamental to human life as is food and water. It is who we are. It is arrogant to believe that what is not true to you cannot possibly be true to me. In this respect I see no difference between that stance and the one you are so angry at Christians about.

There is very much a difference. I'm glad you brought this up, now we can get into the meat of some issues. Living as though scientific theories may exist promotes exploration into testing, discovery, analysis, more hypothesis, more testing, etc. Living as though supernatural phenomena may exist, when there is no good way to prove it, or test it, or really hypothesize about, except to resort to identifying with ancient holy texts is much different. With scientific theory, there is no dogma to constrict society. If society has an issue with a scientific theory, all they have to do is present good evidence to contradict the theories, and it's back to the drawing board. With religious or supernatural belief, there is dogma which people devote their lives to with unyielding passion. They don't have to defend their beliefs with anything more than belief. So you see, the two ideas are much different. Searching for the truth of reality and accepting something as truth because you feel passionately about it are two way different things. What is your path towards finding out if what you experienced with the paranormal is real?

American society as a whole today does not persecute atheists, homosexuals, and people of other faiths. Individuals do to varying degrees.

This is true to an extent. Sure, it is always the action of individuals that are responsible for whatever actions of oppression may take place, BUT... when we can identify the ideals that groups of individuals embrace and what those ideals are made of, then we can start to identify what ideologies are prone to an oppressive nature. Christianity, as a religion, as a faith embraces the notion of sin. Sin is misdeed against god by performing actions, or if we are to believe the teachings of Jesus, even thinking misdeeds. Some of these misdeeds include being homosexual, disrespecting your parents, and not worshiping the god of the bible, just to name a few. Now, as an atheist, these ideas are perverse. This is obviously just an ancient form of moral control for the masses. It's a moral dogma. As a free person, I don't need an idea of a great father figure, that is going to hand out punishment to remain moral. I also don't agree that something like homosexuality is immoral purely in it's own right. I also don't agree that not worshiping the god of the bible is immoral in it's own right. Standard Christianity says it is immoral, and because of remaining in this immorality, I will go to hell. I will recieve punishment. Also, if I choose to speak out against these ideas, then I am an enemy of the faith and I am a deceiver. This is Christianity. Now, there will be some kind-hearted Christians who won't tell me this to my face, and may even not believe this totally themselves, but if you read the bible, the ten commandments are plain. The presence of sin, and punishment for sin is clear in the bible. So no, American Society does not persecute homosexuals or atheists, but the root doctrine and ideologies of Christianity do, in their essence. It's in the text. This is the oppressive nature of Christianity... the dogmatic enforcement of moral principles for all of humanity, that have no basis of proof or validity, other than promotion through supernatural faith. This isn't a personal issue. This is about ideologies.

Christianity does not affect you if you do not believe. Individuals on their own agenda do. If you want to offset this so-called oppression then I wouldn't flip the switch and put it on others whom you simply do not agree with.

Christianity does effect me. As Americans, it effects all of us. Christianity is the religion held by the majority of people in our society. 82% of Americans claim devotion to the Christian faith. Christianity is present in all aspects of our society, including law, politics, etc. If I want to offset the so-called oppression of Christianity, I will do exactly what I'm doing... speak against it.

I'm fairly certain you are offended if Christians lump all atheists in a pot together so I would suggest not doing the same for all Christians. You can't want/ask for one thing but then turn around and do the same thing yourself.

When I talk about ideologies and root doctrines, then yes, I can lump all Christians together. They all believe in the god of the bible, Jesus the son of god, the teachings that go along with it, and the moral dictates of a supernatural deity that they have no proof for, yet enforce and wish to impose on the world through legislating their ideologies.

I hope this all makes sense, and clears up my position to you. This isn't about me vs. individuals. This is about me vs. obviously perverse ideologies that are being promoted by groups of individuals and that are embraced by the whole of Christianity.

"G"

This post was last modified: Jul 02, 2008 10:50 PM by ggeorge2814.