The Baytown Bulletin Board

I wanted to bring this out of the shout box for discussion...

Davo6Six said:
Who DOES dictate morality then? Or is morality off base to for discussion? Again, show an abortion being performed on HDTV. It will never happen. You know why? Because it would disgust the majority SO bad, that it would be outlawed the next day.

No one dictates morality. Morality is a process that we engage in together, but that can only be applied at the individual level. Some things don't apply to a blanket standard of morality and have to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Abortion is one of these things. Because of dogmatic religious moral doctrine, a good majority of Christianity wishes to outlaw abortion in the U.S. Doing this would seriously oppress the rights of women to choose what to do with their bodies.

Here is my take on the issue:

1) Women need options to protect their health in emergency situations. Abortion should be an option in this case.
2) Sometimes people have things like pregnancy forced on them through rape and sexual abuse. Abortion should be an option in this case.
3) Sometimes people who live in really bad situations make really bad decisions. Do we really want people addicted to crack being forced to raise a crack baby in a environment that is only going to breed suffering for the parents, the child and society? Abortion should be an option in this case.
4) Now, this one is going to be contested by many people, but I feel that if a woman becomes pregnant and decides that either she does not want a child, or that she is unfit to raise a child, then abortion should be an option. This is because I value personal choice.

To say that abortion is murder is to apply religious ideologies to the issue. Unborn children are not legal citizens of any society, they have no rights and can make no decisions on their own. They don't have the capability to communicate or express their will. They are absolutely dependent on the inner processes of the human body and can not exist outside of these processes, without artificial support and sometimes not even that.

"G"

Its up to you G to tell me if its not a Human inside the mother, than what is it?
Because it is a human it needs to be protected, just as you and I are protected by laws against anyone who wish to do us harm.

Lets show an abortion on TV with a camera from the inside of the mother.Most people who are pro-choice ignore the fact that its a human baby with its own idenity, its own dignaty and deserves the same respect as you and me. Just because its small and can't speak for itself, doesn't give anyone the right to end/kill it.

A word on morality:

To me, morality is wholly a personal decision. An individual has many life experiences and influences that help to mold him/her into deciding what is moral and what is not. What is right to me may not be right for someone else and vice versa. Where Christianity fits into this for me is that it was one of my influences, a guide if you will, to help me with life decisions that were both easy and hard. I will use Ghandi as an example to prove that you don't have to be a Christian to be moral. No one, even my pastor, could ever convince me that Ghandi is being eternally punished for living a life that was very Christ-like, even though he was not a Christian. Ghandi believed in non-violence. Ghandi defended women, the weak, and oppressed. Ghandi challenged the ruling majority, suffered, and eventually was murdered for his actions. Sound familiar??

Even though I am a Christian, I have ZERO right to impose my morality on anyone else because I am in most cases completely ignorant of their life experiences and influences. I agree 100% with George's 4 arguments for abortion. However, I do think he's off base when he says that people who do not agree with abortion are only doing it based on Christian morality. Abortion, and a woman's right to choose, has been questioned and made into a crime in many parts of the world that are not Christian. On the other hand, many predominantly Christian nations have legalized abortion. You will always have those who do not agree with abortion and will question it because it is a VERY sensitive issue.

I am a young woman, yet not so young as to not have life experience.

I have been to the clinic with a friend. It was a devastating and difficult decision for her to make. She was distraught, felt horribly guilty,....I can't even put into words the emotions that day quite honestly. I could cry just thinking about it.

I hope our guys on the forum don't take this the wrong way BUT....

I think it's easier for a guy to say that abortion is immoral, shouldn't happen, murder, etc. because you aren't the ones who carry those babies. You aren't the ones that have to worry about getting beaten up, you aren't the ones who have to worry about where the money is going to come from just to birth the baby for starters, etc, etc. Women always carry the burden. Always have, always will. Now, before I get yelled at...there are some AWESOME men out there who love and support their baby mama and are there from day one. That being said...realize that isn't all men.

The last thing I would like to say in this novel is that you don't know what's going on with these women. You have no right to impose on them that just because they got pregnant they should have to become a mom. Motherhood is sacred and a lifelong commitment that is not suited for everyone. The next time some of y'all would like to criticize a woman who has had an abortion you need to understand that that woman made a decision that ripped her heart out. It was no la-te-dah. SHE had a reason to question the pregnancy NOT YOU and she made the most difficult decision of her life and it will haunt her until the day she dies. Let's show THAT on TV so maybe some of the naysayers who are so hateful and condescending will see that abortion is much more complicated than you ever imagined.

ED,

Actually, if we're going to talk about rights, then the mother's rights should supercede the rights of the unborn child. It's not a human inside of the mother, it's a developing human. If we're going to talk about harm, what about my points?

Women need options to protect their health in emergency situations.
In the case of health emergencies, great harm can come to the mother.

Sometimes people have things like pregnancy forced on them through rape and sexual abuse.
Great emotional harm can come to a woman who is forced to raise the child of sexual abuse. What about the rights of the mother in this case?

Do we really want people addicted to crack being forced to raise a crack baby in a environment that is only going to breed suffering for the parents, the child and society?
Sure there would be exceptions to this, but for the most part, people don't rise out of their class or social status. Children raised in harmful environments suffer because of it. What is the greater harm... terminating a pregnancy, or living your entire life in poverty, crime and struggle?

This isn't about fetus rights. Fetuses can't survive without the obligation of the mother. A fetus is part of her body and completely dependent on her. She should have the right to choose what happens to her body.

"G"

ED said:
"Its up to you G to tell me if its not a Human inside the mother, than what is it?
Because it is a human it needs to be protected, just as you and I are protected by laws against anyone who wish to do us harm."

No, it's not up to G. It was up to the United States government when they passed Roe v. Wade. They made the decision probably before G was born.

Ok, I have to step away from this thread. This is something I feel very passionate about and you will never change anyone's mind about abortion. It makes me sick that people suggest putting it on TV. Where is that Christian compassion for the women who go through this? It sounds to me like you want to punish them. It's a horrible thing all the way around.

If Ed and others like him feel that abortion is "murder," then they do want to punish women.

Tell me Ed, if abortion was made illegal in the U.S., what punishment would you see fit for the women that choose to do it anyway?

"G"